In Part 3 of this conversation Sean Grattan and Manuel Shvartzberg Carrió discuss HADHAD as a virus analogous to Covid 19, “something that allows for change” and Sean’s forthcoming project about the contradictions of liberalism.
00:00 (MS): "Is HADHAD the quintessential revolutionary figure?"
02:00 (MS): Makes analogy with HADHAD and Covid 19 - "The virus could be seen in your movie as a positive, something that allows for change...not change within the existing accepted categories but new categories, and I find that really hopeful and really exciting"
03:54 (SG): “There might be a liberal fantasy of being liberated by the other … it’s connected to the oppressive regimes of past liberalism……by fact of who I am (a white Western male) I have that with me… ". Discusses Slavoj Žižek's statement that 'the most important step to begin is a ruthless self-critique'
07:00 (MS): "The big takeaway for me from this conversation is the kind of privilege that Art offers… the privilege and joy of being able to ask questions and not resolve them"
(SG): Discusses 8 years writing a script which addresses "the fundamental schism of liberalism". Describes the plot of a group of political agitators seeking to establish a utopia. Describes the films theme as " … the double sided nature of the liberal ideology….in the one hand you have market liberalism and on the other you have political liberalism… but they’re intertwined… you’re free to do what you want and live the life we choose, but you have to do it within a market economy that essentially has no community or compassion about it…at the same time you have to compete for resources"
Discusses eight year script writing process “I think it could still be a relevant work because the screws are getting tightened so much now"
11:30 (MS): Do you think the pandemic has exposed the fallacy of ... the market economy? ... Is your new movie more hopeful?"
13:30 (SG) Discusses the need to resist cyncism. Discusses US/UK liberal politicians of the past 20 years (Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Thatcher / Reagan & Blair / Clinton) “Liberals in power are the ones who deserve the most scrutiny…they’re the enablers…"
(MS): "One of the most amazing things about your work is how you’re able to have these Macro level concerns with politics, philosophy, language and society, and yet you’re able to bring them down to earth with characters, plot lines, music and cinemtography"
17:24 End of Part 3